Two charedi Members of Knesset recently made comments that people should know about.
Meir Porush, of United Torah Judaism, was interviewed about the electoral fraud in Bet Shemesh. One of the biggest cases was discovered by authorities due to their being tipped-off by someone in the charedi community. Porush's response was to condemn people who report such things to the police.
Meanwhile Yisrael Eichler, also of United Torah Judaism, spoke about the efforts to counter the new Israeli government's policies regarding charedim. He stated that "If the government continues with its gezeiros, international human
rights organizations will demand an investigation over the
discriminatory policies and question how in a prospering nation over
800,000 children are living in poverty." In other words, it's the government's fault that charedim live in poverty.
I'm past being astonished at such statements. What astounds me is the many "normal" Anglo-charedim that I know who vote for these parties.
Saturday, December 28, 2013
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My, this is interesting. Rav Chaim Kanievsky ztz"l was proclaimed for many years to be the authoritative voice of Daas Torah . Countle...
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While Judaism has been around for thousands of years, it has changed in various ways over history. Concepts and beliefs changed. Certain thi...
would you have voted for them in your chareidi youth and if so were you normal then ?
ReplyDeleteSure, in my youth I was very passionate about voting for UTJ. I was very idealistic and naive. I'm not sure how I would have felt if I would have heard of comments such as these.
ReplyDeleteSomehow treating everyone equally is racist and it's the government's fault that the charedim don't want to participate in the workforce.
ReplyDeleteWelcome to "The System of Doctor Tarr and Professor Fether"
It's kind of funny that they can condemn "informers" on the one hand and be quite proud about how they're running to international officials and the US to complain about Israel on the other. (Indeed, this has already begun: Poor Dan Shapiro, the American ambassador, gets regular complaints about the Israeli government from UTJ Knesset members. That's disgusting.) I guess "informing" is a one way street.
ReplyDeletePorush's son Yaakov was arrested in the scandal, so I can understand his affront.
ReplyDeleteOnce you start with the premise that Israeli society hates religion and they therefore hate the charedim, then everything that happens is fit into that framework. There is no way to have any logical argument, because it's a forgone conclusion that everyone hates the charedim because everyone hates yiddishkeit.
ReplyDeletemaybe we should have that commission take a look at Porush's salary and the rest of the Shas & Utj's payroll. Then they should discuss chareidi poverty
ReplyDeletewhy do you think that "normal" anglo charedim have drunk any less of, or any less potent, kool-aid?
ReplyDeleteAnd this brings up a very interesting point that my husband and I were just discussing. I was wondering if perhaps the reason so many people get away with pedophelia and other terrible things within the frum world is that frum Jews are simply ignorant of the details and halachic implications of being "moser." In fact, being a "moser" /informant is such a taboo subject (understandably so), that people automatically assume that it's completely forbidden, rather than acquaint themselves with the halachos of under what circumstances it is permitted and what circumstances it is not. My husband noted that although there are many halacha shiurim offered on lashon hara, for example, he cannot recall any such halacha shiurim on the topic of "moser." He thought that the reason is that no one giving such a shiur would appreciate it coming back to bite them if some of the words and concepts were taken out of context.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if perhaps the reason so many people get away with pedophelia and other terrible things within the frum world is that frum Jews are simply ignorant of the details and halachic implications of being "moser." In fact, being a "moser" /informant is such a taboo subject (understandably so), that people automatically assume that it's completely forbidden, rather than acquaint themselves with the halachos of under what circumstances it is permitted and what circumstances it is not. My husband noted that although there are many halacha shiurim offered on lashon hara, for example, he cannot recall any such halacha shiurim on the topic of "moser." He thought that the reason is that no one giving such a shiur would appreciate it coming back to bite them if some of the words and concepts were taken out of context.
ReplyDeleteI agree that this would be a good idea, and I believe that those Rabbis who take the approach that you do are often emphatic that one should go to the secular authorities with these problems.
That said, we do need to clean up our problems, but these problems exist in all worlds, not just the frum world. That is not a justification in any way for inaction, but it does make me skeptical of remedies that are based on the special circumstances surrounding the Orthodox. I think that the reluctance or ignorance on when to contact authorities crosses cultures.
I'm also a bit concerned that if you would not always get the results you expect if you asked for guidelines on Mesirah. There are still plenty of Rabbis out there who want to deal with the issues "in house".
If the government continues with its gezeiros, international human rights organizations will demand an investigation over the discriminatory policies
ReplyDeletethis piece, by William Kolbrener, should be required reading for the yahadut hatorah MKs (and their rabbanim).
in short, if they want to open up the pandora's box known as "human and civil rights" they aren't going to know what him them.
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.530760
Rabbi Slifkin,
ReplyDeleteBy moving to Israel but choosing to remain committed to the "charedi" identity, these Anglo's have adopted the approach that they are "Commanded" to vote for whomever the rav/haredi gedolim say to vote for. Therefore, they will not stop voting for these parties no matter what these politicians say. These guys have a blank check to say and do whatever they want with no consequences.
You are calling them anglo charedis. You should know that they will not go against "daas torah" or else they have lost the charedi part.