In a recent class, “Rabbi” Yosef Mizrachi illustrates the Gemara’s principle with an example that brings him great joy. He describes how Slifkin was the first to defend (Rabbi Joseph) Dweck (the London scholar who was embroiled in a controversy over some of his teachings). That’s because, gloats Mizrachi, following the Gemara’s principle, Slifkin and Dweck are both resha’im! He happily adds that anyone who enjoys my material on the internet is going to go down to Hell with me. (You can watch the two-minute video at this link, if you are feeling masochistic.)
Yet his delirious joy is based on something that never happened! I did not write any post at all in defense of Rabbi Dweck during the controversy over his teachings. That was for the simple reason that, as I stated explicitly, I had not heard any of Rabbi Dweck’s lectures and could not comment on them. So Mizrachi’s argument is a complete fabrication!
(Incidentally, while Mizrachi describes me as “making fun of the Gemara,” my crime was actually quoting the view of Rambam and others that not everything in the Gemara is scientifically correct. Perhaps Mizrachi should clarify whether he considers Rambam to be “making fun of the Gemara.”)
But it turns out that Mizrachi has an excuse for not reading what I actually wrote, either in my books or on my blog. He says that since I am a rasha, it is forbidden to look at me, to listen to my voice, or to read my words, in case one absorbs my evil! (Someone should attend his class with a picture of me on a T-shirt.)
The Gemara’s point about starlings going to ravens isn’t illustrated by the fabrication that Mizrachi creates. But if you want an illustration of the Gemara’s principle, there would seem to be a great example: that of Yosef Mizrachi.
Who flocks to Mizrachi’s classes? I know one very fine person who is, inexplicably, besotted with him. But many of his most devoted followers, those who flock to defend him, seem to be of poor character – hateful people, willfully ignorant people, crass people, violent people, people who gloat at the suffering of others.
And here’s the ultimate kicker: Mizrachi himself has boasted of criminals and murderers who are followers of his! He once proudly described how he has a devoted follower who wanted to actually murder one of his critics!
Lo lechinam holech ha-zarzir etzel ha-orev, elah mipnei shehu mino.
(On a more serious and important note, if you missed the post with Chicken Wars monograph, check it out at this link.)
It is VERY difficult to say that you are not doing "lashon harraa" in some way!
ReplyDeleteI expected more!!!
Mizrachi is a dangerous man, who preaches hate and divisiveness. There is certainly no issue calling him out.
Deletehow would you suggest that one go about warning of a fraud and swine who represents himself as a rabbi to the ignorant and confused? Moshe ben hayim Israel
DeleteJust because you wouldn't call out someone who slandered you doesn't mean RNS has to be quiet when he is a victim of slander. Open your Chafetz Chaim and learn the halacha.
DeleteIt seems like this article is trying to say Birds of a feather flock together. That's interesting considering how dozens of Rabbis like Rabbi Eli Mansour, Rabbi Meyer Yedid, Rabbi Yaron Reuven, Rabbi Aharon Bassous, and many more all say that Josef Dwek is misleading, Tref a Rasha and worse. All who took the time out to condemn him and warn people to distance themselves from him like Korach. Videos can be seen by searching their names and Dwek on youtube. Apparently some people still respect Dwek. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjGl4Ep2B5U
ReplyDeleteThis post is not about Rabbi Dweck.
DeleteThis post points out that Yosef Mizrachi is internally inconsistent. Never did RNS say that he agrees with the birds of a feather principle.
DeleteWell, actually, as someone who heard Rabbi Mansour's criticism of R Dweck here...
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M0thSCnEu0
...I suggest you listen yourself and make up your mind.
The first thing that is clear to me is that on the whole RD does NOT say that Dovid and Yonasan had a sexual relationship. He reiterates this several times. Anyone who denies this has not listened to the recording. He also concedes the sexual revolution brought "a lot of junk with it". What is clear is that
(a) R Mansour did not hear the lecture properly
(b) Mizrachi (I will not dignify him with the title Rabbi) is at best, an idiot who by his own admission has limited comprehension of English, or at worst, is a disingenuous liar who deliberately misrepresented what Dweck said.
Moreover, Mizrachi does not realise but he is actually mocking Dweck's quotation of the Pesukim. So Mizrachi will have a tough time learning the Nach itself!
I'm a big fan of this blog and it's author and his work, from whom I've learned many things. I've also been inspired to pursue my own interests in learning Torah.
ReplyDeleteThat having been said, I think there is more than enough material from Mizrachi to criticize without having to get into anything about his "followers."
Mizrachi is so beyond the pale, I sometimes wonder if we ought to respond to him at all.
ReplyDeleteWHy not debate Rabbi Mizrachi? He loves debates!
ReplyDeletehow about we just learn Torah without name-calling?
ReplyDeleteIt is indeed possible to disagree with someone's opinion WITHOUT name-calling and character assasination
Who flocks to Mizrachi’s classes? I know one very fine person who is, inexplicably, besotted with him. But many of his most devoted followers, those who flock to defend him, seem to be of poor character – hateful people, willfully ignorant people, crass people, violent people, people who gloat at the suffering of others.
ReplyDeleteThis is the kind of think that Mizrachi would say about others. Let's not commit the same fallacy, IMO.
Here is an easier explanation: an element of popular religion is team selection: here are the good guys (our team); over there are the bad guys (other team). Add in that a lot of religious conviction revolves around finding the easy or magical solution to your problems (e.g. segulos), and it is easy to understand why someone like Mizrachi can appeal to both elements.
You generally are appealing to a view of religion as a (sometimes mundane) source of help in the struggle of everyday life. This view was not appealing to large numbers of people in the Rambam's day and it is probably no more appealing today.
This will kill my comment for lots of people, but I think that a similar analysis applies to the Trump phenomena in the US.
David,
DeleteI'll refer you to a discussion I myself had with his followers on a video concerning Dweck, Mizrachi and Mansour.
Ariel Rom
So then how can anyone think it would be okay for 2 adult men to sleep in the same bed.
ME
What has this got to do with the lecture? R Dweck described the men kissing and caressing in a nonsexual manner. That is not the same as sleeping in the same bed.
Ariel Rom
you're a fucked up liberal fool
ME
This is really sad. The first thing I did when I saw your rude idiotic response was check to see if you are a Youtube follower of that rude, idiotic Yosef Mizrachi. Surprise surprise, you are! His response to Dweck in this video is so foolish he either didn't listen, didn't understand..... or is a liar. Now, re-read what I have written and try again with an adult response.
Ariel Rom
yet every major Rav in the world has put Dweck the lager in on a religious ban. It's not simply Rabbi Mizrachi it is the entire senior religious community leadership. Are you suggesting Dweck is above them all and that Deeck had the authority to change the Torah and it meaning. Typically liberal, so I guess you will start your own religion now; because what Dweck teaches isn't Judaism. And yes I have fear of heaven enough to know to your mentality to back a heretic makes you a fool and less than a dog
There are annoying people everywhere. And the few people who you argue with are not a random sample of his supporters. Finally, I think that pretty high percentage of Orthodox have a negative view of homosexuality.
DeleteIn short, you are also wildly overgeneralizing from personal experience.
To call the followers of Mizrachi “violent people” is unwise (especially since most are not violent). I would advise to not include that in part of the description since it will invalidate your valid criticism, in the present and future, in the eyes of Mizrachi and his followers.
ReplyDeleteCould we compare the number of secular people who became Shomer Shabbos having listened to R'Mizrachi vs those who read this blog or the books of its author?
ReplyDeleteEnds justify the means? Might makes right?
DeletePlease go ahead and make the comparison. Do you actually believe the grotesque and self-serving claims that Mizrachi has made hundreds of thousands of Baalei Teshuvah without any proof whatsoever? It is all a nonsense. Have you been to his 'Yeshivah'? Does it even exist?
DeleteI once heard a claim that one yeshiva's approach was more valid than Yeshiva University's because it has far more students. Someone wrote a reply...."well, last year 2 million people made the Hajj to Mecca...you had better convert to Islam!".
DeleteI do not know about whom he was referring but Abraham Lincoln once said, "I do not like that man; I have to get to know him better."
ReplyDeleteNowadays, every respectable cult leader needs a posse---to get that respect.
ReplyDeleteThe only place I ever hear or read about this rabbi Yosef Mizrachi is this website. I gather he may have some adherents, but clearly they are not your target audience. In short, I don't why you bother with him. Just ignore him.
ReplyDeleteFWIW, he has 12K+ youtube subscribers. As to whether these posts move the ball forward, I don't know. This is not my favorite.
DeleteExcellent chicken article. 2 minor points.
ReplyDelete(1)You say (page 13) the netziv would permit breakel and all chicken breeds. However the netziv permits turkey based on wide spread acceptance and the breakel has not been widely accepted.
(2) You say many others follow the shulchan oruch and rema in their adoption of rashi's stringency that a mesorah is needed to permit a new type of bird.
Is there an implication that those who permit turkey/cochin have to disregard shulchan oruch, ?
but as you say not all those who permit turkey/cochins say they are disregarding the shulchan oruch, there are those who say the shulchan oruch would agree that turkey/cochin is permited because of hybridization or long term observation.
so really there 3 categories when it comes to turkey/cochin. (1)those who permit despite rema,(2) those who permit and interpret the rema as permitting and (3)Those who forbid and interpret the rema as forbidding.
(1)You say (page 13) the netziv would permit breakel and all chicken breeds. However the netziv permits turkey based on wide spread acceptance and the breakel has not been widely accepted.
DeleteI need to reread the article, but it certainly has been widely accepted that all breeds of chicken are kosher even though they differ from those in the past (at least ones that look chickens to the untrained eye). The Braekel thing is new (going both ways).
but it certainly has been widely accepted that all breeds of chicken are kosher
Delete...
silkie chicken is widely accepted as kosher ?
These comments were posted to the wrong post. I am re-posting them to the correct post.
DeleteI think the most important, and, I might add, obvious question here is - WHERE CAN ONE GET A T-SHIRT WITH A PICTURE OF YOU ON IT???
ReplyDeleteI am an ardent fan of this blog.
ReplyDeleteI am an ardent fan of R' Mizrachi.
I think the problem is most people who object to him only listen to snippets of his talks. Listen to a few hours of his talks and you will find him very mainstream but politically incorrect. He also relies on Kabbala a lot, which I find distressing, but is mainstream. In short, he is mainstream, funny, and very effective.
He does, sometimes, say ridiculous things but usually admits mistakes and corrects them is subsequent talks. A rare quality he shares with R' Slifkin.
So we should understand to view his video in context? Like the insults he threw at R' Slifkin were not snippets. I've watched his full videos. I use to be a fan, but I was never fully indoctrinated nor brainwashed, and thus, was able to escape the fanaticism. And I can tell you this: those snippets are his true views and they are in context of the full lecture. I know; I've watched full lectures.
DeleteWhy in the world is the concept of how many people a Rabbi inspired to make Shabbos observant a standard for a rabbi's legitimacy? If the reason the person keeps Shabbos is no different than the reason Jews danced around the eigel hazahav, why is their keeping Shabbos a good thing? Mizrachi inspires people based on a dogmatic approach of superiority and ownership of truth. If someone thinks they have a full understanding of a Torah concept, they are no different than one who says eileh elikecha Yisrael.
ReplyDeleteDear rabbi slifkin.
ReplyDeleteI read some of your posts concerning rav mizrahi. It seems that you doesn't know his material enough. I use to listen to his teachings, sometimes he s pretty rational.he even sometimes agrees with you. I learned from him that we don't consider every information of Talmud at the same level.for instance what is considered medieval scientific knowledge we are not supposed to follow and it can even be wrong......i m telling this because both of you have great knowledge in Torah and sometimes it s disappointing that you spend more time attacking each other often based in false information.
Dear Bohadana
DeleteNice try, but I also was a fan and watched his lectures in context. He is not rational. He relies on Kabbala and said that Slifkin is going to hell. Nice thing to say to fellow rabbi. If nothing else, Mizrachi is a fanatic. Racist. Holocaust denier. Anti-semite. Should I continue?
MIZRACHI is exactly what this world needs--non-PC truth. He is hilarious and gets people engaged in a way that people take notice and understand. Humor is not for everyone and he is so funny I love him, he is real. He is waking people up, those who claim he is hateful are the ones who are actually doing the hating. Typical liberal hypocrites are the reason most stay away. PC LIBERAL CULTURE IS A MENTAL DISEASE
ReplyDelete@Angelique
DeleteDon't you find the hypocrite in Mizrachi and not Slifkin's followers, since Mizrachi's followers are the murderers, criminals, hater, racists, holocaust diners. Point to one Rational Jew who preach the hate he does. Good luck!
A sponge, soaks up everything; A funnel, takes in at one end and lets out at the other; A strainer, which lets out the wine and retains the lees; A sieve, which lets out the coarse meal and retains the choice flour.
ReplyDeleteFunny how “Rabbi” Yosef Mizrachi insults his critics and encourages their murder when Rabbi Slifkin (an actual rabbi) defends himself politely and does not encourage violence against his critics.
ReplyDelete