On a very different note: Ordinarily, I would say that something like the Lebanon Maritime Agreement should be brought by the government to the Knesset for a vote. However, ordinarily, the members of Knesset would be voting according to what they believe to be in the country's best interests. In this case, however, the opposition already explicitly declared last year that they will automatically vote against anything and everything that the government wants to do, even if by doing so they are harming the country. And they've actually done this, several times. Accordingly, there is no purpose in enabling them to vote on it.
Why not related what Pesach Krohn said to you? Why does he stay silent? Do you not see this as tacit support for your persecutors?
ReplyDeleteI think his position is made quite clear here.
Delete'Accordingly, there is no purpose in enabling them to vote on it.'
ReplyDeleteWell, that's whom the people elected. But the Arabs in the Knesset will vote for what's good for the country.
Democracy is a fraud and will inevitably lead to the national decline and collapse as is already very clear. Here you are chearing the bypassing of the very system that you advocate when it can lead to an undesired outcome. Democracy in Israel has always been a fraud and will remain so until it is either replaced or the state will collapse.
The parliamentary system requires party members to vote along party lines, or to abstain. They can't vote against the party line, because the government will fall.
DeleteThis isn't the case in the United States: Even if a Democratic senator consistently votes with the Republicans, s/he won't influence the composition of the Senate, or the stability of the government.
Disgusting way to talk about R' Krohn. Hope he doesn't read your blog.
ReplyDeleteHuh?
DeleteCheap shot to claim that Rabbi Krohn had some choice words for the banners, but not quote them.....
ReplyDeleteThis is also a cheap shot?
Delete"Rav Aharon did not take kindly to this suggestion. I will omit certain details, except to note that Rav Aharon exclaimed in anger, “Ich ken alain paskanim a shailah.” (I am competent to decide an halachic issue.)"
http://mschick.blogspot.com/2012/04/remembrances-and-reflections-ix-shabbos.html
Or is it standard writing procedure?
Rabbi Krohn doesn't support the ban on R Slifkin's books . . . I see the cognitive dissonance/mental meltdown kicking in already (@Yoni @Anonymous)!
ReplyDeleteThe end does never justify the means.
ReplyDeleteWhat is this country a democracy for?
Yakov
DeleteIn real life the end justifies the means and this is one of the reasons why democracy is a fraud. The politicians knowingly deceive the electorate to get elected. Once in office they pursue their own agendas. It's just the way politics work.
DeleteLol, is that why people all over the world are trying desperately to emigrate to the United States and Western Europe?
DeleteYour opposition to bringing the Lebanon agreement to a vote in the Knesset indicates that you have shifted to the Left. You are willing to throw democracy out the window if it helps the Left shove another treacherous agreement down our people's throats.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of whether the Likud has always acted properly in recent months, there is clear, authentic, ideologically and factually based opposition to this inane agreement and if you are willing to dump democracy in the name of your animosity towards Bibi then you are proving to not be rationalist at all, but emotionally driven, seemingly similar to your apparent hatred of the charedim.
I have no idea if the agreement is a good thing or not. But it's clearly not "inane," seeing as it is supported by the heads of the military and security agencies - who were appointed by Bibi.
DeleteThat is an ad hominem argument in reverse. The highest levels make horrible mistakes just as civilian leaders do. If we accept that type of logic we have effectively rendered our brains to the military.
DeleteScott - reread RNS. He's not saying it's definitely a good deal. Just commenting that it is not inane if it's supported by military leaders. It can be mistaken, it could be correct. As you point out, military and civilian leaders both make mistakes. But it is not inane. And since the opposition has not been acting in good faith, it makes no sense to give them a day if it is not mandated by law. Charedim voted against a petur from the army draft for yeshiva students, and Tziyonit Hadatit voted against hesder yo"sh. I'd agree that they are not acting in a responsible manner.
DeleteLeft or right politicians manipulate the system and use 'democracy' for their ends. In Israel the system is corrupt.
Delete@ Scott;
DeleteIt is actually an argument from Authority (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority).
But even then, I am not sure it is a logical fallacy. Rav Slifkin is commenting on the use of the word 'inane' which means "lacking sense or meaning; silly". Rav Slifkin's point was that people with knowledge and "authority" do not believe it is inane. This is not the same as saying the because these people support the treaty it must be good.
Rabbi Slifkin inconsistently subscribes to the logical fallacy of appeal to authority. He is kofuf to medical gedolim (but not Didier Raoult, who is a definite gadol with pathogenic species named after him, but a scientific fraud of late), ageing soldiers with lots of stripes (but not US retired military intelligence generals like Ritter and Flynn) and not ageing Rabbis with lots of kvittels. In short, the Rabbi Doctor is a reasonably accurate thermometer of irrational upper middle class received wisdom and norm. It's the pretension to rationalism that sticks in the craw.
Delete-
The sceptical rational approach is to test every pronouncement against objective evidence. The reality is the maritime agreement is not peace in our time. It does represent, at least for now, the subordination of nationalist and ideological claims to mutual rational economic self interest.
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The most reliable air defence for an Israeli gas platform resilient against mass precision rocket fire and cheap drone swarms would be a very valuable and nationally cherished Lebanese equivalent.
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Everyone can come up with a reason as to why they need to suspend democracy, and doing so sets a dangerous precedent. A democrat would expect the public to punish lawmakers who act in opposition to the national interest, and to give Lapid the mandate he needs to get the deal through in the next Knesset. Lapid lacks the courage of his convictions, and given the polling for an ageing corrupt racist kleptocrat whose only consistent policy has been his personal self interest, I can see why. Proportional representation has been a national disaster for Israel, and has given the extremes vast powers at the expense of a coalition of moderate centrist compromises. Israel is likely to become the medinah of Kach.
"It's interesting that there are still people who only know of me in one context."
ReplyDeleteMost in the Orthodox world only know you in one context. The ban and books parve enough to publish even for the OU.
The Usual YA
"Accordingly, there is no purpose in enabling them to vote on it."
ReplyDeleteHard disagree. Even if - especially if - you're in the middle of an election, it's very important to get inarguable, unequivocal evidence of MKs' positions.
(I am speaking to the general principle of whether bringing things to a vote is good; I take no position on the legal requirement, or lack thereof, to do so in this particular case.)
Looks like you are getting a wheat belly
ReplyDeleteHow perfectly rude! Hard to believe people like this exist.
DeleteNo not a wheat belly, in my family we usually say "you're starting to look like a Rebbe or Rav".
Delete@LA, so we're publicly rude to them too.
DeleteRabbi Paysach Krohn has been outspoken against the internet especially against anonymous commenting....
ReplyDeleteHard to know where he really stands
Whoa! - "there is no purpose in enabling them to vote". Them being obstructionist doesn't give you the right to circumvent democracy!
ReplyDeleteIf he doesn’t know you run the museum, it means he doesn’t read this blog, and doesn’t know how you’ve evolved.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure RNS was created this way ;)
DeleteAnother Dave
"Then he said how fortunate it was that I happened to be visiting the museum on the same day as him."
ReplyDeleteThat's hilarious. Sometimes we people on the internet don't realize what a bubble we're in. For years after "the ban" Orthodox people wouldn't recognize your name when I mentioned it, or at most say, "Oh, yeah, Slifkin...there was some controversy, right?"
Your last point is really sad, but, agree or not, true.
The ufortunate and unfair ban has turned an eccentric but harmless zoo rabbi into an irrarional and confused MO individual who has lost his prior ways and whose evolution of his views is taking him further and further away from where he was at the time of the ban. It's a sad story that keeps unfolding on this blog and isn't likely to end well.
ReplyDeletePaysach Krohn endorses Slifkin against the gedolei hador and that is supposed to mean anything?
ReplyDeleteIf anything it tells us where PK stands
Close. But actually it tells us where the Gedolim stand, despite their public statements that you so easily swallowed. Thus, as reported a while back in these pages, a specific Gadol on record as RDS's active if moderate opponent, privately, and without any explanation, allowed a questioner to read RDS's books.
DeleteMeanwhile, others want RPK to open the can of worms and won't allow him to remain silent.
As practically proven, any agreement of Left with Arabs is bad.
ReplyDeleteAny action to stop the Left is therefore good by default.
Poor Bibi... all Israeli generals are Leftists for a while ago. Right supporters are usually filtered out as early as in officers course. So Bibi has little choice. My condolences here is that Bibi himself is not too better.
https://www.jns.org/opinion/is-the-israel-lebanon-maritime-deal-as-good-as-the-abraham-accords/
ReplyDeleteThe usual YA
This post is a bold faced lie! Rabbi Krohn would never talk desparingly about anyone.
ReplyDeleteSorry, the word is 'disparagingly' and the other word, preferably, is 'bald'. As for you saying 'never', listen to more of his speeches and you'll see that what you wrote is a lie, and maybe even a bald one.
Delete